Comments on A Little Bit of Info

175 Comments:
Anonymous said...
Wow, I'm first!
Mazel Tov again.

2/08/2006 8:38 PM
Josh said...
Elisheva, that was so personal, it was touching. Well, at least as personal as you can be while remaining anonymous! You writing described the feelings that confront a Kallah very well. You're aware of everbody around you, and of your own thoughts and needs, and your honesty in everything is inspiring. I am glad that we will continue to benefit from your insights into growing into the religious responsibilities that we all face.

I look forward to sharing in all your future Mazel!

2/08/2006 9:13 PM
Chillin in The Lake said...
Elisheva, Im so happy for you. Very well said. Hope to hear more from you...

2/08/2006 10:42 PM
s.f. said...
tx tons for your sharing your feelings & simcha with us, i m a guy but ill admit to having tears in my eyes while reading, (it seems u did not aprecate the idea of a "shower" from us) also being i figured u r smart enough do handle this on your own i havent commentad on the issue ifu shoud share your blog with hubby, but i did talk to a bachur in shiduchim now a realy fine yeshivish fellow, who knowsnothing about blogs etc i explaind it to him & askd how he would feel i was surprised but he said it would not mean to him that the girl is "kalye" ,so it seems guys r not so closed minded after all,

2/08/2006 10:50 PM
s.f. said...
oy vey i smell the end of blog is near shevy if u r going to live in lakwood, the schools wont accept your children if u have internet acces,

2/08/2006 10:53 PM
ms. shtark said...
very well written. i was esp. touched about what you wrote; not forgetting your single friends. you know it's funny - right out of seminary it is kind of a race to get engaged the first in the grade and then once the first 10 have gone, there is no race and then sadly you begin to really appreciate your friends and really feel simcha as you get to age 22 and 23. and wow that is not even old.... i am so happy for you. you sound so fresh and eager, just like a kallah should be. all the best!!!

2/08/2006 11:04 PM
geshmaker said...
congradulations are in order. i think you finaly made it a GIRLS ONLY blog. i can't think of anything you wrote thsat would interest any self-respecting guy. so mazal tov, good-bye, and i did enjoy the good parts of your blog while it lasted.

2/08/2006 11:07 PM
Semgirl said...
Sorry, I didnt make the #1 spot, again. You did email me before posting and I really appreciate that. Unfortunately, I checked my email many times this afternoon, but went out to eat tonite and then attended a phenomenal lecture afterwards. Since I'm falling asleep as I am writing this I will have to continue tommorrow..

2/08/2006 11:48 PM
Anonymous said...
Where is bmgb? I am shocked he didnt post first. Anyways Mazel tov again and good luck.

2/09/2006 1:09 AM
specialx2 said...
Thank you for writing so personal, interesting, witty, and LONG! I enjoyed reading it, and thanks for writing so sensitively to the singles! FOR ONCE WE GOT RECOGNITION! THANKS! It feels gr8!
Hatzlacha in everything! Keep us posted!
P.S.
I shared your feelings about the issue of telling him / sharing with him all your online stories like your blog etc. It's good that you told him a little background, but yet not EVERYTHING, like some people suggested here.

2/09/2006 9:41 AM
On The Derech said...
Elisheva,
Iy'h everything should continue smoothly and you should always be as happy as you are now! Are you going to have internet when you get married??

2/09/2006 2:08 PM
Elisheva said...
Josh - As usual, such nice comments and you really are a dear to say such nice things about me. And is that your pic? I like it. You will make someone real lucky one day...

Chillin, thanks.

s.f. - Firsy of all the 'shower' idea was real cute. I just think it could really happen. But it was an idea... About the bachur you spoke to, I guess we are over stereotyped. Like I think people think all frum BY girls would not be like me, nor would my chosson be as tolerant as understanding as I think he is. Just goes to show. And heads up all you girs looking for a normal guy! Sounds like s.f. has one here...

Ms. Shtark and Special - Thanx. It's weird that you say I am being okay about the singles issue. Like I so feel I am one of them. Just because I B"H got such a gift from Hashem does not make me a different person or change everything I felt and believed until now. Whatever i thought about singles until now, I still feel in me. I hope I always do.

Geshmaker - I take that as a compliment!

As far as internet in our home... It's under thought and discussion I guess.

Last but not least, SemGirl - You can post whenever you want. It's what you say not what number comment it is. I hope you rested well. You deserve it. Can't wait to hear from you, ans yes, to get to my e-mailing...

Shalom

2/09/2006 2:53 PM
shtaiger said...
my darling elisheva, beautiful post, so so sweet.

2/09/2006 3:22 PM
shtaiger said...
you know who i am don't you?

2/09/2006 3:25 PM
Bracha said...
Elisheva,

That was such a lovely post.... So heartwarming.. I can just imagine sitting next to you and hearing you say exactly what you wrote...It was from the bottom of your heart..

Thanks!

Bracha

P.S. What about my email?

2/09/2006 3:57 PM
shtaiger said...
brachale, be so kind and send me an email, so that i too can have the honor of making a connection with you. shtaiger@gmail.com

2/09/2006 4:14 PM
Mata Hari said...
Eli - you have a gift for expressing yourself in writing. Everything you said rang true.
Thanks for sharing.

2/09/2006 4:36 PM
geshmaker said...
yes that was a compliment, i think your blog i finaly where you wanted it to be.

shtaiger: are you who "I" think you are?!?!

2/09/2006 5:46 PM
ms. shtark said...
hey geshmaker, thought you were done with this blog!! just couldn't stay away, huh???

2/09/2006 6:12 PM
Lvnsm27 said...
Beautiful post, thanks for sharing

2/09/2006 7:46 PM
Okee said...
your post was so real and true -i really enjoyed reading it. It sound as if you are really tuning into your heart, head and soul. Kudos-it's not always so easy to do that. mazel tov, and may you be as wise in all your future decisions.

(I don't know about you, but decision making is the worst!)

2/09/2006 7:57 PM
eli said...
Elisheva, I have to take strong objection. You are by no means a "plain girl", why would you say that for. And I highly doubt that those girls "on a higher level", come up to your toenails in Chesed and sensitivity.

2/09/2006 8:40 PM
Elisheva said...
Ivnsm - Thank you.

Okee J - Welcome to our little blog family here. And thank you too for those comments.

Seems like I was able to put some of my thoughts down properly. The truth is, when I try, it like doesn't work. It's when I'm all emotional and just want so badly to convey my thoughts and at the same time my enotions, and I just let it all out, that it works. B"H, I am glad, and I hope to be able to post about some of the issues I mentioned in the right way too.

Eli - that is so sweet of you. Okay I will grant that I try to be a mentch and do chessed and stuff. But I totally admit there are girls who do that too and manage a level I envy.

Shalom

2/09/2006 10:02 PM
s.f. said...
did u mean to type it could"not" realy happen ? btw i m awed by the self control u & sg have as not to meet each other, do u ppl even know each others last name? & about the bachur i dont mind if there is somone here looking for a long term r"y future, i m quiet close with the guy, & know his fam. so let me know any of u lol

2/09/2006 10:55 PM
Pragmatician said...
Well written, keeping your anonymity yet giving away the details that matter without the necessity to identify anyone in particular.
I don't know about housework, I think it's combinable with a part time job, but if you plant to rent a huge house that might not be true.

2/10/2006 10:41 AM
shtaiger said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/10/2006 10:58 AM
shtaiger said...
geshmaker, who do you think i am?

2/10/2006 10:59 AM
specialx2 said...
oy shtaiger - BEHAVE

2/10/2006 11:07 AM
shtaiger said...
whats your problem?

2/10/2006 12:24 PM
shtaiger said...
whats your problem?

2/10/2006 12:24 PM
Elisheva said...
Please, I don't want to have to delete comments. I love everyone's input, but like in a nice way. It's best all around.

Thanks prag, and no, we just plan on renting a basement, so I hope it won't be too much.

Good Shabbos and Shalom

2/10/2006 2:25 PM
chanie said...
i don't know if i already said this or not, but mazel tov to you, and i hope you enjoy many long happy years together. you sound very happy...good luck with your shaitel (i have the same problem as you...i dread wearing one!)

2/11/2006 8:57 PM
Anonymous said...
i m sorry for posting as anon but i couldent get myself to say this any other way but u have got yourself aspot in my heart & since your engagmeant i have been saying a kapitel thilim evrey day for your future succes, (i generaly do this for a fam. member )being i wont know the day of marreige i guess ill say the whole thing, best whises & may the 2 of u always find favor in each others eyes,& have many children, with the wealth to sustain them,& lots of nachs & good health, & all your hearts desires for ruchniyus & gasmyus should be fulfilld

2/11/2006 10:16 PM
Elisheva said...
Chanie, you're so welcome! And at least I am not alone in the sheitel thing...

Anon, gosh, that was sooo touching. I have no way to thank you. This is like something that can never be repayed. It may sound funny, but I also have a lot of people that I know from the blogs in mind in my tefillos. Even though i don't know names or like exact details, I feel thier emotion and daven for things to work out by them.

Shalom

2/12/2006 12:00 AM
chanie said...
what do you mean, 'ur so welcome', just out of curiosity...

2/12/2006 12:55 AM
The Real Neo said...
Elisheva,

Mazel tov, mazel tov! I haven't been to your blog in a long time. The content early on was not shayach for me to see (not a judgement).

I read this post about your enggement, thoughts on your chosson, IM"Y your marriage, frumkite, this blog....and I just want to tell you your entry is inspiring in its sincerity. The love and respect and hope you show for yourself, others and the world are truly fantastic and not much seen in such a synical world.

It is also quite amazing how your sincerity and pureness of emotion and description of experience such as trying on your gown can reach even male readers who can experience nothing like it yet feel true joy for you.

I had hoped this comment to be more elegant but alas, not so. I want to thank you for showing that such qualities do indeed exist in this world. I want ot thank you for being a shining example of what a frum jew should be in terms of being a lght and being able to have people of all levels, genders and hashkafas relate to you and most importantly, well, at least importantly, thanks for reminding a synical old fella like myself that i can still be truly happy for someone else.

you should merit to have a lovig, fulfilling and always growing marriage towards echother, towards your fellow jews and of course, Hashem.

2/12/2006 8:27 AM
Elisheva said...
Chanie, it was just like for your Mazel Tov wishes and your words on my blog. Maybe it was the wrong term. Like they say, whatever, lol...

Tailor, you left me speechless. Maybe I should just stop at that. I feel humbled because I don't see myself the way it sounds here, but it is so nice to know if I am doing the right thing and making a kiddush Hashem. I won't deny it is a very good feeling.

As far as some of the qualities you describe, some say today it isn't too good because you can get hurt that way. I try not to be naive but to still keep like upbeat. It isn't easy and for that I have to thank a few role models, who I can't name here, but they would shocked to know how their attitudes have affecting me, even though they probably wouldn't dream that like anybody took notice of the way they are.

Okay, I have to go. Snowman building time again! This time it looks like good potential...

Shalom

2/12/2006 9:55 AM
Eshet Chayil said...
I haven't had tome to post on other people's blogs, but I wanted to tell you (since I'm snowed in) that this was an amazing post. Hoep you're doing well, and stay always as sweet as you are.

2/12/2006 11:18 AM
Semgirl said...
Dont worry, I haven't forgot.. working on it right now..

2/12/2006 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...
Wow this post is really drawing out all the mushy comments. On a side note maybe Semgirl and Elisheva should get together for a snowball fight today. Maybe you can even invite some of the other female bloggers to participate.

2/12/2006 3:49 PM
Anonymous said...
great idea, where will we meet?

2/12/2006 4:44 PM
Semgirl said...
Why is everything so quiet today.. Did you have a snow day today, Shev..

2/13/2006 3:41 PM
shtaiger said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/13/2006 4:02 PM
shtaiger said...
hey chanie, can you please send me an email at shtaiger@gmail.com. you dont give your email address in your profile just that funny website, so if you email me ill get it thanks.

2/13/2006 4:05 PM
specialx2 said...
so shtaiger - who actually ARE you?

2/13/2006 4:11 PM
Elisheva said...
No, they had yeshiva today where I work, just no transportation and it was like a nightmare all the cropping off and everything. At least, i leave before pick up.

The snowman didn't work out too well yesterday. The snow was too light and not sticky. A blog snowball fight would have been fun. I guess we'll do it after the shower idea...

Shalom

2/13/2006 7:08 PM
ms. shtark said...
went tubing today - you should try that instead of a snowball fight!
so elisheva is there gonna be a single's table at your wedding? lol

2/13/2006 7:22 PM
shtaiger said...
anyone out there now im feeling lonely.

2/13/2006 8:44 PM
ms. shtark said...
shtaiger are you someone else that we should know about

2/13/2006 9:42 PM
Elisheva said...
Shtaiger, I do appreciate all kinds of thoughts and comments, but this is not a chat room. Okay?

Ms. Shtark, tubing sounds like great fun! Only here with not too much privacy outdoors, I can't exactly even go sleding in the snow. Too many guys around to start like waiting for the one moment your skirt by mistake... you know. So until we make it a big trip, it will have to be more plain stuff.

Shalom

2/13/2006 10:52 PM
Me said...
Hi Elisheva - I just wanted to wish you a BIG mazal tov!

It's obvious that you and your chosson are communicating openly, which is the most important thing for a wonderful life together. And your comment about not needing to know every little irrelevant thing about your chosson (and vicec versa) is spot on.

Keep your mind and eyes on the big picture - marriage and a happy Jewish life together - and the little annoying things, like sheitels and wedding seating plans won't aggravate or stress you too much.

Live your lives for each other, Torah and Hashem - everything else is really irrelevant...

2/14/2006 1:03 AM
Anonymous said...
Shtaiger why don't you get a life?

2/14/2006 1:24 AM
skibum said...
"can't exactly even go sleding in the snow. Too many guys around to start like waiting for the one moment your skirt by mistake... you know."
Your kidding.......!?
Ever hear of pants under your skirt...
Besides normally when you are tubing its sooooo cold you need three layers so everything is covered all the time
PS guys don't go to the ski slope to pick up s, thats done after in the bar

2/14/2006 11:04 AM
skibum said...
should be read as
PS guys don't go to the ski slope to pick up girls, thats done after in the bar

2/14/2006 11:05 AM
BZMGBIG said...
where did bmg-bochur dissapear to?
do you think he really gave up blogging?
or is he really....................you-know-who?

2/14/2006 1:31 PM
chaya goldie said...
So elisheve works for a yeshiva office.I don't understand how she can continue this blog with her chossen learning im BMG.All yungerleit must have premission to have internet from one of the four yeshiva poskim and I can't imagine them giving permission for the sake of this blog unless elisheve turns it into a mussar blog.I miss her already.

2/14/2006 2:24 PM
ms. shtark said...
uh yeah, if your skirt flies up while tubing or skiing, i should hope it wouldn't be too attractive - like you should be wearing snow pants or sweatpants at the least! you get covered in snow cuz it blows all over you!! soory, i don't go to a bar after. but could use a really hot coffee or hot cocoa. whew, it was cold yesterday!!!!

2/14/2006 2:26 PM
Semgirl said...
Elisheva, I really miss hearing from you. Hope all is well.

2/14/2006 3:16 PM
shtaiger said...
ms. shtark, you should definitely know of me. anyway, youre the one with a hidden profile.
elisheva, i didnt expect such sharp words from you. especially since you know who i really am.
any of you female skiers out there, please let me know when and where maybe we can arrange something.
love you all.

2/14/2006 3:57 PM
Elisheva said...
shtaiger - I have no clue who you are. Either you are trying to pull my leg and fool everyone reading here, or I am slow to pick up someone changing an identity. Either way, no I don't know you, and I'm sorry, but like this is still not a chat room. No offense. I just don't want it getting to silly and offensive remarks.

Ms. Shtark and SkiBum - My parents say it is lo silbash to wear pants even for skiing. Maybe my chosson will let after we are married, but for now, that is out. And let me tell you, I once was skiing down a little hill here a little out, like by a side place, whatever, like a few years back, and I was wearing wool leg-warmers, and thick tights and then thick thigh-hi's on top, topped by socks under my boots, and I fell like pretty embarrassingly and my brother is like, "Elisheva! There are boys here!" I was like, so?

So I learned to never take anything for granted. But maybe I am too suspicious. That would be a nice thought.

SemGirl, I was busy and whatever. Hope to get to writing soon.

Chaya Goldie (do I know you? guess you wouldn't know...) - hi. I don't have kids yet so like not in any schools. And besides no one exactly knows about my going online besides my chosson. If we decide we'll keep it, then no one will know, and like there are hundreds of people like that in Lakewood, we all know that, with or without the takanos. And if we decide no, then that will be that for now.

Shalom

2/14/2006 4:12 PM
skibum said...
My parents say it is lo silbash to wear pants even for skiing.....?????????
You're joking!
Now I get it, like the woman in Trim Gym that doesnt own a pair of sweat pants, hot pants or even leggings and jogs on the treadmill in p-hose........ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Seriously you dont even have sweat pants for pj's?

2/14/2006 5:44 PM
bmgbochur said...
Yes I have left blog world, but I'm returning to wish elisheva mazel tov, and also to mention that I am not shtaiger- ok geshmaker!

2/14/2006 8:24 PM
ms. shtark said...
uh elisheva, do you wear pants to sleep at least?

2/14/2006 8:28 PM
ms. shtark said...
shtaiger, don't know who you are - if you are geshmaker that is pretty sad and i don't care to know either. just be normal.

2/14/2006 10:35 PM
s.f said...
about having net at home after chasuna, imho, get out of here, no doubht we will miss u, but for your own selfish benefit it just aint worth it, but specificly keep in mind if u have it hubby to be will "chap" a gesmhak in it & u dont know where it can lead, it has a reputation of runing the best guys if u need refrences i can get them for u, its a danger for perfectly normal ppl the decison of course is yours (btw as a shalom bayis tip never tell hubby now or in future u r carfull for "his" ruchnyis guys dont take well to that

2/14/2006 11:07 PM
Anonymous said...
Bmg bochur
what do you mean you came back to wish elisheva Mazel tov as i recall you already did that on her previous post. Unless you think you have a weekly obligation to wish her so again. Also if you left blogland how would you know what is being commented on the blogs? Something smells fishy.

2/15/2006 6:32 AM
geshmaker said...
i know i said i was leaving this blog, but i do check it out every now and then to see if it gets interesting.
so far not much. although "shtaiger" does seem like the frontrunner to try and fill the void left by BMGB's alleged reformation.

above anon: what the heck are you doing up at 6:32 AM?!?!
unless you were up all night online ;) !!
and please don't tell me "some people get up early to learn" because i would hope someone who does that has more of a life then to be checking blogs at that hour of the day.
all that aside, good point!

one more thing- how did a relatively innocent post about gowns and sheitels end up with guys looking up skirts on the slopes, and picking up girls at "the bar".
and elisheva, i would hope that even the most bored and desperate guy in world has something better to do then wait around in the snow, freezing his butt off waiting for the tiny chance he might get a long-distance,nano-second peek at your knees :).

with that thought, maybe it's time i get back involved over here.

2/15/2006 12:29 PM
ms. shtark said...
geshmaker, why is it time for you to get back involved, to put everyone in their place - so you can show everyone the light? that was of course not the main thread - i think i happened to mention that i went tubing so elisheva said that it can't be done in lakewood - not that you would be doing it on your front lawn anyways. but yeah, i agree with you it is quite pathetic if guys want to freeze to do that. very sad. like i only went down twice because it was so cold, i thought my toes and fingers would crack off.

2/15/2006 1:20 PM
Anonymous said...
hey people get a load of this one:www.shtaiger.blogspot.com!

2/15/2006 3:10 PM
geshmaker said...
i would like to publicly apoligize to BMG-Bochur for even hinting that he might be shtaiger. now that shtaiger has started his own blog, it is obvious that they are not the same person, and i would like to say I'M SORRY.

i will not attack shtaiger on this blog as this is not the place for that.

2/15/2006 3:44 PM
ms. shtark said...
wow geshmaker i am finally really impressed. if there is anyone who should be attacked it is shtaiger. come on, let me see you dish it out!

2/15/2006 7:36 PM
shtaiger said...
ms shtark, i'm surprised you fell for geshmaker's good-boy show. please don't mess around with me.

2/15/2006 9:48 PM
shtaiger said...
can't believe nobody visited my blog.

2/15/2006 9:49 PM
Anonymous said...
Shtaiger its because your a sicko. Your blog is plain out sick.

2/15/2006 10:37 PM
geshmaker said...
shtaiger you piece of crap, i already "messed" with you about 6 hours ago but you apparently chose to "moderate" my comment and leave them off your blog. i can't say that this bothers me too much, as sure that everything i wrote was going through the mind of any normal person who read the pathetic perverted opening post of your very sad blog.
elisheva:
i'm sorry that i am bringing this to your blog, as that was not my intention originaly, but if shtaiger is going to moderate comments on that blog and only put in the ones that fit his/her agenda, i have to defend my reputation and let people know that i DID try to dish it out.

2/15/2006 10:46 PM
geshmaker said...
oh and one more thing...
i'm shocked that someone who has access to the internet can still be this desperate. GET A LIFE. and put up my earlier comment.

2/15/2006 10:48 PM
ms. shtark said...
so elisheva are you getting married in bais faiga - or are there any other places to get married in lakewood?

2/15/2006 11:31 PM
kishkhed said...
rav miller has all the answers!
and me too of course
mazal tov

2/16/2006 2:19 AM
Anonymous said...
Elisheva, married women are allowed to think for themselves. If hubby says he doesn't like what I am wearing or he objects to the sweatsuit I wear around the house, I tell him he doesn't have to wear it. I wear what is comfortable and practical for me to wear. As the one who is wearing it, only I know what that is.
In the long run, guys get bored with ladys who cant or wont think for themselves.

2/16/2006 2:16 PM
Anonymous said...
Whew,anonmous you sound like a real "isha keshara haoshe rotzen baaloh".Please don't corrupt elisheve or any of us others out there.P.S. Can't you find a nicer way to let your husband know how much you want to wear it without being so abrasive?

2/16/2006 2:43 PM
chaya goldie said...
It is sad how women act as if their husbands don't have feelings.In general I think society berates men and particulary yeshiva bochrim and gives them so little credit for what they do.Imagine what would be said about a man who just sits around in pajamas all day and talks to his wife like anonamous talks to her husband.(while I'm sure there are men who do they wouldn't boast it)I would like like to make a long posting about we should apreciate and respect yeshiva bochrim (with all faults included) but don't want to hijack elisheves blog.

2/16/2006 3:25 PM
ms. shtark said...
actually just want to give my opinion here. i am not married so i can't be a rebbetzin or anything but if you have an understanding relationship, and you respect each other, you would both be able to give in and state your opinions like adults (as you are). if he doesn't like you to wear hot pink, and you don't like a few of his ties, i think in a healthy relationship you would give in and follow each other's wishes. compromise is the word!! also, how on earth did we get to this topic anyways?

2/16/2006 4:39 PM
shtaiger said...
thanks for the support,chaya goldeleh, you're a great masculinist!!

2/16/2006 5:07 PM
Anonymous said...
I'm not abrasive with my husband at all. We are equals and partners. We respect each other greatly.Telling a kalla that she can think for herself and not be subservient to her husband is not corrupting her.
I have no desire to tell my husband what to wear. When I am forced to point out that his shirt is less than spotless, it really bothers me. If a person is old enough to get married, they are old enough to decide for themselves what to wear.

Ms. Shtark, we got on this topic when Elisheva said she hopes her chossen lets her wear pants under her skirt for winter sports. If she's old enough to get married, she's old enough to dress herself. IYH, when you get married,you'll see that there's compromise and then there times where you just have to agree to disagree(which is also a form of compromise)
Chaya Goldie, in my experience,it's usually the opposite. It's the men who treat their wives like servants and expect to be served hand and foot. In some circles so many women work like dogs both in and out of the home just so he can learn. She serves him with Moonie-like devotion and he takes her for granted. Are you sure you're not really a man?
Lastly, anyone(man or woman) who doesn't think for themselves and have their own opinions is boring. A man who is secure within himself doesn't want a subservient wife who always agrees with him.

2/16/2006 5:30 PM
Flatbushyid said...
Anon above me

I will just ask you what the torah meant when it says "vho yimshol bach" I am a married man and its nice for womwn to think we want real go getter wifes full of their own opinions, however I don't think that is a natural trait of women and don't think that helps the marriage. Of course their should be dialogue on both sides but certain final decisions should be the mans domain and certain ones the ladies. It sounds to me you don't agree to that statement.

Gesh

Did you see this apikorus, ben avaus's blog?

ms stark

How is everything?

Elisheva

I sent you an e mail mazal tov, now here is a public one, mazal tov, all the brechaos people wished you should be mekuim.

2/16/2006 5:47 PM
Chillin in The Lake said...
I am married and I can say some guys like very independant girls and some guys like a girl more dependant on him.
Anyway we all know that marriage is compromise but there can not be 2 kings in one castle the final word has to be someones. There will never be 2 people who agree on everything let alone a guy and girl. But there are issues (in each situation different ones) that there needs to be a final word. In halacha issues a wife can not tell a husband if you dont like it dont do it.

2/16/2006 6:17 PM
ms. shtark said...
anon above flatbushyid, first of all i don't mean to say this in a rude way, but if you really do have your own opinion, why don't you sign a name? I know that screen names are also anonymous but once you blog a bit and sign with a certain name, you get yourself an identity and ppl get to recognize a bit of your personality. so just wondering why you don't sign (i am not saying this in an offensive way)

i agree with you that sometimes you can agree to disagree but it should not be often.
also, i think it's ok to let your husband know if he spilled some coffee on his shirt. he is human and may not have noticed.
"in some circles so many women work like dogs both in and out of the home just so he can learn"

you say "just" so he can learn like that's all he is doing with his time and he is wasting his time(i'd understand if he's drinking coffee the whole time). i know this will sound very idealistic but i mean it. Starting off a home learning is a plus and for the first years - it can only build a stronger foundation for a Jewish home, i would feel honoured to work (if i am able of course)so we can have a Torah atmosphere. And the men do a lot to help at home - a lot of them make suppers and help clean the house - you cannot generalize like that that women are slaves. yes it is a big sacrifice and it's not easy to work and then come home to kids and laundry but it's for a good purpose. of course when the time comes, if there are a few kids, and the wife can't work then i think it's time for the husband to go to work.
and yes, some things are in the men's domain and some for women.
fy, same old. everything is going great.

2/16/2006 6:25 PM
chaya goldie said...
to mrs. anon;perhaps if I was a man I would think differantly but I have heard too many women say they are doing things their husbands don't like (one is to many...).I don't think telling your husband that you don't have to wear it is the most gentle way to disagree with him,particularly if the issue is halacha (pants).While I obviosly don't speak for men I think human nature is that a husband does not want his wife to be dependent on him in some areas but doesn't want his authority challenged in others particullarly halacha.Since most men and women do try to be good spouses I regret starting this thread which will only cause problems and I will comment no further on it.

2/16/2006 6:43 PM
Semgirl said...
Wow, MS.. I sincerely wish you get what you describe, with all my heart. But you really do need to live in Lakewood for a while and take off your rose-colored glasses.

2/16/2006 6:49 PM
Anonymous said...
In terms of pants and halacha there are valid opinions that allow for it and I only wear it around the house or in the gym.
And no, chillin, there cant be 2 kings in a castle. Thats why men and women are different. That doesn't mean that the king and queen cant rule together. If we disagree on an issue involving halacha, we call a rov. He can tell us if there is a valid halachic opinion that allows for something. If I need medical advice i call a Dr. If i need legal advice I call a lawyer. Thus couples always have whom to consult.
Chaya Goldie, this isn't the shtetel. Today's women are educated and often have their own careers. And, yes, alot of us want to learn more too. In the heim alot of women were illiterate. There was no such thing as wives working as programmers or accts. to support the husband or just to make ends meet. In todays society women and men are alot more equal. To ask a woman to go back 100 years when she goes home simply is not realistic.
Fltbushyid, some of us really are independent in personality and thought. Depending on whether a woman was encouraged to think for herself or not, it is indeed our nature.

2/16/2006 7:40 PM
Elisheva said...
Okay, sorry for my long absence. Sometimes you accomplish things and sometimes you don't. I guess this was a hishtadlus week. Like tried on stuff, checked out stuff, and got very little. Oh well. I guess there is always tomorrow.

About all the issues - First of all I'd like to give my opinion. I have e-mailed with shtaiger a little (I didn't realize it was him), and I think he is basically a nice guy and means well. I just think he doesn't know how to come across the right way. (sorry shtaiger, I just feel you will need to learn a little, no harm meant). So I do think his comments here were a little off, but let's hope he will limit it here to just comments on the issues. Obviously private e-mails are different where different things can be discussed that aren't apropriate in public.

About the anonymous advice about the pants issue. First of all, like I agree with Ms. Shtark, it is so much easier if you use a name.

Also, I think people so mix up being subservient and being a mentch and knowing your place. Chillin put it best I think and also Ms. Shtark. I am a pretty independent minded person I think and I think most readers of my blog will agree with that. But that does not mean I think that if I listen to what Hashem tells me then I am a subservient dog.

I guess this needs like a post of its own. What I am saying is that I don't take just anyone's word for what it is Hashem wants of me. I look into stuff and ask questions and maybe the teachers here in the girl's high-schools don't like that. But I do.

But you have to decide who you will trust and who's minhag or ideals you will follow and then listen even if you disagree! Like do I think I can pasken halacha? No I do not. Maybe I know what to ask, but I don't know how to pasken. So there can be no such thing as "I won't take such a p'sak." Once you ask the people you trust you have to listen, not because you are subservient, but like because it is my own ideal and I feel I should do that now.

I know this is probably not halacha, the pants thing (or maybe it is? See how little I know...) But still, it is a way of living that you choose to live and a it is a feeling in yiddishkeit. And chillin is right, I hope my chosson will listen to me in things having to do with like what I know, but I will listen to him in things having to do with halacha for sure and even yidishkeit. Could it be that I will sometimes disagree? I guess so. But I choose who I will marry and it is someone I trust will make desicions I will belive he means for our good and then after I choose that, I have to learn to live with that. Otherwise like it can be all chaos with each spouse doing their own thing.

Maybe this sounds idealistic, I can't say I know yet, but this makes sense to me. Like girls hear the word subservient and they get all hysterical, but like telling your husband you could care less for what he believes, like I don't see how that can be good for the marriage. Good for you maybe, but not like for the marriage. (Does it sound like I've been reading marrige books? I have, lol!)

Like if he would tell me what material outfit will be most comfortable to wear, then it would be normal for me to tell him, I am wearing it so let me. If he still would care, then that is not the type of guy I would marry. But if he says he thinks it is not tzniusdik or allowed in halacha, then even if I don't think so, I will go with him. Now, before we got engaged, we checked to see that we are basically compatible in our beliefs and where we are heading. And I don't think he will go with all the things my parents did. But if we disagree on some things, I will willingly go with his opinion. That is being smart, not subservient, I think.

Okay, enough of that. Ms. Shtark, I so hope you get what you wish for. You deserve it. And with all due respect to my dear friend SemGirl, Lakewood has like all types. Yes there are those who make you feel so like disillusioned, but I have a family where my brothers are in Yeshiva and my brother-in-law. And I know others too, friends family etc. There are truly those who do it, mean it, and have lives I so envy. I only hope we can be like them and not like the ones who make us lose faith.

And at the risk of being a total neb, no, in our house the girls don't wear pajama pants either, only under a nightgown or nightshirt. That doesn't even bother me, I think is is more feminine. In the cold, like when skiing, or if I could go bike riding (I wish...) I would love to be allowed to do that with pants on underneath

Shalom

2/16/2006 7:46 PM
anonlady said...
ok everyone, i have a screen name.
A woman is supposed to be subservient to Hashem alone.
Unlike other religions, we do not worship a man.
As long as something is within the realm of halacha, it is mutar. My husband and I also have similar minhagim, so we basically agree. If he wants to take on a chumra, that doesn't mean I have to. We agree on that as well.

2/16/2006 7:59 PM
s.f. said...
about pants well it is a halacha shaila, many (minchas yiotzchok for exam. for the guys here lol ) rule its not allowed, i actuley know first hand of a rav in lkwd that rules that way, so shevi m wondering who your dad asks lol

2/16/2006 10:25 PM
Jewboy said...
I really mean no offense, but the last post got really hard to read with all the likes. Perhaps after writing a post you should go back and erase all the likes. That would like help me like read your post so much like better.

2/16/2006 11:12 PM
ms. shtark said...
elisheva, well said.
s.f. - pants is a halacha shaila and everyone should follow their rav (or find a rav that will give them the answer they want!! lol)

semgirl - i may sound idealistic - i know i do slightly, but there are guys out there like that. i have brothers who live like that. they have tremendous respect for their wives and they do a large part of the house work as well to help. no, they don't live glamorous lives but they have meaning to their lives. i see it first hand. i also work in the professional world with irrelgious and non - Jewish ppl and i see that wealth and glamor does not guarantee happiness - all the fancy dinners and cruises and newest ski equipment cannot give you a happy home - all that glitters is not gold. It's the ideals that a marriage is built on that counts.
yes, a home like that may seem to have less glamor (and i am finding that most learning boys may be less sophisticated because they are less out there in the world but it's healthy for a marriage for the guy to be less worldly. he will have less of a wandering eye and less to compare his wife to).
anonlady - thanks for giving yourself a "name". yes we are only subservient to Hashem to the highest extent. But you are answerable to your husband and he to you - part of the give and take relationship.
ok, i will stop my drasha. just my thoughts for the night.

2/16/2006 11:12 PM
Anonymous said...
check out this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3359871752807944339
its great- and watch it to the end, its about 60 seconds, about giving some time to your kids. its a great lesson.

2/17/2006 1:02 AM
Chillin in The Lake said...
Anonlady what is the realm of halacha???? Im sorry but there are many places where there are different ways to pasken and different Poskim have different psokim (a tounge twister). So by you as long as someone holds like you, you can go after that way, even if your husband would hold otherwise. Well, BH in most frum torah observing homes where there is Yiras Shomayim, you would follow a specific rav and the way the husband would hold (which should be the same), being there are many different ways to follow. Im not talking about chumros Im talking Halacha. (Besides who decides whats halacha and whats a chumra?) I dont want to be mean but Torah and Halacha is not a Dr. or Lawyer. If one is no good find another. Its not the cleaners, if one cant get the stain out take it to another. It does not work that way, you can be playing with fire.

Elisheva, pants are a Halacha sheila disscused by many poskim. BH you seem to get it, that as in your parents home you followed whomever your father held was the proper way, so too in your future home with your husband it will be who he feels will be his Halachic authority. Good for you. There are so many more important things in life, you have a good attitude towards things that some people get all worked up over. Especially in Halacha issues, if your brought up with Yiras Shomayim you learn not to shop heterim or get upset when a psok is not the way you wanted. (BTW I allow my wife to wear pants under a skirt because thats how my Rav holds.) I also feel the same about girls who dont want to follow, in what their eyes looks to be more leinient. Halacha is one of the foundations of a jewish home.
Sorry I went long.

2/17/2006 1:07 AM
Elisheva said...
Gosh, just got caught in the rain on the way home. Totally not prepared. Came outside, it was like sunny and a second later - pouring! Now that can get embarrassing...

Anyway, I didn't have to go right in to the erev Shabbos preparations cause I had to come up to change, so I can steal a few minutes for my blog!

AnonLady (and thanks for the name), I posted right after you did and didn't see your latest comment when I did. I don't think what I was referring to really was what you meant. I think you are coming from a very different outlook than a lot of us here on this blog and surely me.

A lot of what you say is true, but like up to a point. I just don't see what all the today, society, and all that stuff has to do with anything. Again, I am not exactly the defender of frum yiddishkeit here, but I do belive in stuff even though I am maybe not the typical perfect girl. Still I think we have a way of life which can be beautiful. I stress can be, because trust me, I so know about the fakers here and the ones who do it just because it is an easy and lazy lifestyle for them. But the ones who take it seriously are not drinking coffee all day and are putting in hours and hours of mental exertion and then still helping loads at home with housework and I know a few younger ladies, some from my office and others like family, whose husbands stay up at night with the baby and they say that it is a lifesaver. Okay, so I am talking about those who are doing it for real.

Getting back to my point, people say some things over and over and it is repeated like as if it means anything here. Like today is different. Women are educated. They are doctors and lawyers. Fine. So I am pretty smart too I think (and oh so humble, lol!) and got a pretty intensive education. Does that make me a posek? Does being the top doctor make a lady a posek? Or because she is a top lawyer? Like would a lawyer operate on himself because he is a top lawyer? I know this is an emotional issue, but let's put aside our feminine side and use some logic here. (It's hard, I admit, I am not too rational when I get all mushy about something. Ask any of my brothers, a whole day all I get is eye-rolling and "there she goes again. You're not thinking!")

My point is you go to a doctor for medicine like regardless of how smart, emancipated or educated you are. So psak is for poskim and it is the husband's realm of things according to the Torah. I am almost positive (guys, mekoros please...) it says specifically that a woman should follow the husband's minhag. And isha k'sheira and all that. So where it is style or taste, okay, we can say this is me and why should he care (obviously not counting when we are dressing for him, let's say we are talking about when we are home alone doing housework). But if he says that the Rav he asks says it is not good in halacha, then telling him where he could go is having two kings in one castle and I can't see that it is a healthy attitude.

Of course we marry a guy we trust will ask normal poskim and not follow every 'latest' chumra in yeshiva (my chosson has told me some real doozers!) And we should have dialogue and discuss our feelings so he understands why we are doing things and I guess the other way around too. But when it happens that there is a disagreement, what being educated or the shtetl has anything to do with this is like so beyond me.

Okay, I should be changed by now and have to go pick some stuff up still for Shabbos. They are calling. Sorry about the 'likes'. I know it was very bad last time. I was writing in a hurry and it happens then. I meant to go it over, but had no time and figured better to just post.

Shalom and Good Shabbos,

2/17/2006 12:54 PM
wannabe said...
from http://jdatersanonymous.blogspot.com/

"Romancing the Bloggers...

For many people, the question is, "would you date someone who has a blog?" The implication is that said person who has a blog will undoubtedly blog in some way about your relationship. But increasingly, for bloggers, the question is morphing and becomes "would you date someone who didn't have a blog?"

Over at WebProNews, Ken Yarmosh talks about why he'd like to date women bloggers:


It may sound funny but blogging may actually help foster more successful dating relationships. Why? Well just take a look at their blog either before or after a date and you'll begin to get a pretty decent picture of their beliefs, ideology, and interests. If their blog exists in a social environment like MySpace or Xanga, you can also get a pretty good idea as to who they are "interacting" with on a regular basis - yeah, I'm probably going to stay away from the girl who has tons of comments from other guys, she may be a bit too flirty. Would I date someone who doesn't have a blog? Yes, I guess I would. But blogging is attractive. It means the wheels are turning upstairs. It shows that someone is observant, pensive, and engaged in their world. "

2/17/2006 1:21 PM
Anonymous said...
100!!!

2/17/2006 1:23 PM
chanie said...
where is everyone tonight??

2/18/2006 10:14 PM
skibum said...
"Of course we marry a guy we trust will ask normal poskim and not follow every 'latest' chumra in yeshiva (my chosson has told me some real doozers!)"

The best is when men come home with chumras' just for their wives (stuff that dont effect them) and they themselves are maikel (like, you cant wear pants which doesn't effect him)

2/19/2006 11:51 AM
s.f. said...
ms shtark, were u just being agreeble or did i miss somthing?

2/19/2006 10:30 PM
ms. shtark said...
s.f., sorry i am a bit confused. what are u referring to? do i detect a note of cynicism?

2/20/2006 9:33 AM
Anonymous said...
skibum-how would you react if your husband decided to wear a kilt from now on?

2/20/2006 2:25 PM
skibum said...
Anonymous said...
wtf? Is that a chumra?
A kilt to bed would be nice, as is pants to bed

2/20/2006 6:37 PM
Semgirl said...
Check this one out :

http://www.covermyhair.com/

2/21/2006 3:04 PM
Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...
we really love you and care about you and share your joy

2/22/2006 2:58 AM
s.f. said...
ms. shtark, well i did not relize what u added to what i wrote,(unless did it seem i was saying its defntly not allowed? it was not meant that way at all)u detect well btw,

2/22/2006 10:56 PM
s.f said...
elisheva, (if u r still reading & not in the middle of sheva brochos ) get ahold of r millers book a career of happines, its a great book about builing a jewish home, also if i may , my feeling is it would be of great benefit, for boy& girl getting marreid aside the regu. kallah class/ choson shmuss, for each of them to hear it from the other sides point if i m not mistaken there is a chsuve kollel fellow u feel close to if i were u i would ask him for a "talk" in prepairing for your future, g luck (i know u r prob. getting loads of advice from 1 & all, i had a freind a alter bachur when he finally got engaged, all his buddys were giving him sholom bayis tips, he told me i was so confused, what to do i had no idea but i sure know evreyones problems lol, but figured ill throw my 2 sence in anyhow)

2/22/2006 11:03 PM
ms. shtark said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/22/2006 11:26 PM
Anonymous said...
MS why did you delete your last comment you made a very salient point..

2/23/2006 7:00 PM
ms. shtark said...
just wanted to omit something there.
sf, i was agreeing with you when u said that if u want 2 know what's right, then you have to ask a rav (but once you ask you gotta follow what he says:-)
i did not think you were saying that pants are defitely not allowed (certainly hope not).

2/23/2006 7:39 PM
Elisheva said...
To all my readers and e-mail friends. No, I am not in middle of sheva brachos, lol! Not until after Purim. I just had a very hectic week. B"H accomlished and learned a lot. I still hope to post again. I really hope I will have the time.

I also hope to answer e-mails. They do mean so much to me and I learn a lot. I just can't always get online to respond and stuff.

MS. Did you make a point that I missed? You have great things to say always. I so hope to write you soon. And SG soon too!

Shalom

2/23/2006 7:40 PM
Semgirl said...
Oh, I am so happy to see you back here. I am very busy too, so much that they are making assumptions on my blog, lol.. But I am never too busy to hear from you..

2/23/2006 9:07 PM
Anonymous said...
check this out
http://yeshivasociety.blogspot.com/2006/02/power-to-decide.html

2/24/2006 10:00 AM
Semgirl said...
Why is everything so quiet today ??

2/26/2006 1:37 PM
skibum said...
because you and le7 have gone off to bigger and better things

2/26/2006 2:59 PM
Limey2001 said...
I need some help here... When asking shidduch info about a girl a friend of mine was told one of her "maylos" is she's a "muchna?" which i guess would mean obedient or submissive. Is that a quality ??? is that what we want our girls to be ?? why is that a mayla?!?

2/26/2006 5:36 PM
chaya goldie said...
It probaly depends on who you ask.Can't he decide on his own what type of girl he is looking for?

2/26/2006 6:18 PM
Semgirl said...
Limey, it sounds like you may actually be one of the smarter boys out there.Unfortunately, many BMG "top boys" (SIC), feel that girls who aren't meek and docile are "tough girls" .

That is, when these bochurim are 22, then 10-15 years later they are moaning and groaning, "my wife can't think for herself, I wish she could just make a lil decision in the grocery by herself, without asking me every lil thing" .

I wish you and your friend all the best in choosing a Shidduch wisely.

2/26/2006 9:24 PM
Limey2001 said...
SG the info came from another woman, why would a woman(rebitzen) think its a mayla??

2/27/2006 10:15 AM
Semgirl said...
Please tell me you aren't serious. Every single Shadchan, I have ever spoken to said to me "You don't want to appear too aggressive or domineering". If anything the men occasionally, say it ok to have a mind of your own on some things.

2/27/2006 10:28 AM
Limey2001 said...
I'm serious,
I was gonna go off on a tangent that, thats what the mechanchos want nowadays docile little baby making lambs with the "elites" running the show but i hope sincerely that this is an exception

2/27/2006 2:34 PM
Elisheva said...
Have been so absent, but to jump into this fray...

I think it really depends on the context of the word "muchna". It does sound pretty werid and frummy-frummy that way, and then SG is totally right.

But perhaps the woman who said it is not good with words. because in a certain way, like were were discussing before with listening to your husband if he doesn't let you wear pants and that other woman said she's tell him where to go, so like there i would be "machnia" to my husband and she would not. But not becuase i am a docile little lamb with no mind of her own, but because I believe it is healthy for the marriage and the Jewish way.

On the other hand I think her attitude was NEVER to be "muchna" and that can cause problems and friction. So like maybe you have to clarify. Did she mean she has no mind and will ask him before every thing she eats, "What's the bracha," and what should we buy and everything like that etc. Or does she mean that she knows when she must also listen to another opinion and not think the world revolves like just around her and what she thinks and feels.

Hope to post again soon. (Really, lol)

Shalom

2/27/2006 3:37 PM
Limey2001 said...
"because I believe it is healthy for the marriage and the Jewish way"
The Jewish way? do you mean not to question the chumra's? not to question a teacher. Check out what happened to this lass....
http://frustratedfrumchick.blogspot.com/
(btw I'm not talking about emunas chachomim)

2/27/2006 6:24 PM
Elisheva said...
Why do you seem to have an agenda? Like I never said that. I said there are two sides. You seem to only see one dimension.

Sure I can question my teachers and all the chumras. Like if you read my blog, I am not exactly against questioning. But like after I question, if I get an answer, even though I may not like it, I have the hachna'a to know that it is the right thing to listen. If there is no good answer, then of course that means it is someone's made up chumras and not for me or anyone. But if there is an answer (and yes, like sometimes there are, even if we are not on the mood for them), then listening and being humble is a good Jewish trait. Saying like I will tell him where to go, in such a case, is not.

Shalom

2/28/2006 12:04 AM
Limey2001 said...
The question is, if your teacher, husband, parent says you must do it because it says so in such and such sefer
(not a mainstream halacha sefer like the MB but like a neturei karta sefer and the like) would you listen because its the right thing to do or question its validity (every chumra has a mekor! (and if it doesn't i can make it up)
Are you gonna follow every chavas daas in hilchos niddah? or are you gonna say what does the Rov say.
My agenda is that unqualified teachers etc. quote halachos lechemura because they are ignorant and lack proper training to teach these halachos (or anything for that matter but thats a different subject) A story which comes to mind. My brother in law went to a yeshiva high school and the rebbe decided he's gonna teach the class what it means to have a rov (daas torah, emunas chachomim) with him as the Rov of course so he taught them hilchos shabbos with all types of chumras which made no sense, he obiviously had no shimush in that area at all. Now his father was in a pickle, he was of the mind that you never contradict a teacher but even when the guy spouts pure nonsense???
My other agenda is that so many people are writing halocho seforim that they seem to get a masochistic pleasure out making "gedarim". which brings to mind the famous story of the Netziv and the shoes.... Nowadays they are gonna ask these guys "where are the shoes"....
just remember one thing Ko'ach d'hetairah Adif!! it's not a "kuntz" to assur anything

2/28/2006 10:30 AM
Elisheva said...
Gosh, you must be hurting, I so agree with you on all this. Like totally! But you are so upset, you are not thinking.

WHen you got information on this girl, no one said (or at least that you posted here) that she is "muchna" to every crazy chumra or even normal ones but ones a normal Rav says we don't have to do. That's my point, that it just depends. A normal girl can be "muchna" to like you yourself said when they ask a normal Rav and he says this is a thing that should be done and is not some far-fetched chumra. So then there is also the thing of being "muchna" to the rav and not saying, let's say, "My father didn't do it, so I will tell you where to go." If it is a normal minhag and a normal Rav says it is, then a girl can be "muchna" in a very good way, which, yes, is definitley a plus I think.

I totally agree if she is some nebby frummy and is muchna to every chumra someone might dig up, then it is a big chisaron. It just depends.

Shalom

2/28/2006 2:27 PM
yehuda said...
From my experiance most people who make fun of chumros do so because they are either unfamilar with the kloley horah or simply don't care too much about halacha anyhow.Whether I follow it or not rarely have I seen a chumrah with widesread acceptance amongst any group of frum yidden that does not have merit and extreme care should be taken with how we talk about them.Since this is a girls blog it is inapropriate to elaborate on the above over here.

2/28/2006 3:31 PM
yehuda said...
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my last sentence.I just meant that a girls blog is not the place to elaborate on klloley horah.I apoligize if offended anyone.

2/28/2006 3:35 PM
Limey2001 said...
Yehuda, i am not making fun of chumros just those who impose them on others, "klolley ho'raah" has nothing to do with this. I;m complaining about those who have never had shimush and wouldn't know a p'sak if they saw it in MB with english translation

2/28/2006 3:57 PM
ms. shtark said...
k that was annoying just tried to post something and it didn't work so here goes again.
limey, did your friend go out with her? was she muchna in a postive way? was he even able to tell?
k, i know i am being nosy but i basically agree with elisheva here. u really have to find out in what context she is a "muchna".
Maybe ask for an example that would explain the term in context with the potential shidduch. Is she a muchna in her overall personality? is she muchna in her emunas chachamim - not that one has to follow every chumra but one should not try to be finding every single kulah out there either. is she muchna to her parents and behaves with appropriate kavod to them (of course once she is married, they would be following their husbands first but a girl with kibud av vaem is a mailah) is she muchna to others when in a disagreement and has nothing to lose by admitting the other person is right and being mevater to keep the peace? it is all in the context. what does being a muchna mean??!!

2/28/2006 5:46 PM
Elisheva said...
Ms. Shtark, so well put. Exactly what i was trying to say, but said so much better. Thanx.

Yehuda, the apology was cuter than the line you were refering to. It's okay, I get what you mean, but you are right. I can see some girls who's blood boils when then read such a sentence, and one is a girl who is a dear blog friend, SemGirl! (Just teasing!)

Shalom

2/28/2006 5:58 PM
geshmaker said...
limey: "Nowadays they are gonna ask these guys "where are the shoes"...."
ha'omer dovar b'shem omroh, meyvee g'eulah l'olam.
this is an old twist on the story with the netziv. it was not a "sharp line" made up by limey. legend has it that R' avrohom yehoshua S. (of brisk fame) said achar meah v'esrim when today's mechabrei s'forim show off their sfrorim they will be asked "un a'voo vennen a'yir shiech"!!

2/28/2006 5:59 PM
s.f. said...
dont enjoy jumping in to the warzone but i do think that its brains for a girl to be "mahcnia" to her hubby in ares which he belong to him while she runs her life with her g-d given brain,in all other areas, its simply the need men have its calld male ego,girls let him live a chumra up or down is not worth , what respecting your hubby does for him, in all areas & u gain from it a loving hubby ,i may also add it makes for a better home envierment when the man& women feel there respectiv roles correctly,

2/28/2006 10:34 PM
Limey2001 said...
Gesh, I didn't know r' AJ said it, and you're right i didn't make it up, wow you figured out that it was a twist on the story!!! good for you!

3/01/2006 10:46 AM
Limey2001 said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/01/2006 10:49 AM
chaya goldie said...
Given the chioce between risking being asked for a pair of shoes or risking being asked for my sefer I would rather risk the "shoe question" anyday.Thr main point of the many varaitions of the netziv story I heard was always meant to chide those who don't live their lives as productivly as they could not those who attempt to do something meaningfull and fail.Of course I know nothing about krummer seforim but the point remains.

3/01/2006 2:53 PM
geshmaker said...
lime, was that sarcasm or stupidity? with your usually eloquantly way of commenting i couldn't tell.

3/01/2006 4:21 PM
Mata Hari said...
geshmaker - that's eloquent

3/01/2006 4:40 PM
LakewoodWorkingGuy said...
Some people are no fun. Why can't they understand that sometimes a conversation invites a quick political jab at a present situation that is unfolding.

3/02/2006 9:23 AM
Elisheva said...
Sorry, I had so little time for my blog lately. I really still do hope to post something soon.

I deleted the last few comments. No offense LWG, I understand that it was meant as a pint, but I just would rather not go there. Especially now that I know something of what you guys are refering too, I just think this is not the place to discuss it. Thanx for understanding.

About the shoe story, my chosson actually told me that line on a date! Isn't that a cute coincidence. He didn't say it in a way to critize chumros, but more to say that every person should use their full potential - and that isn't necessarily always in writing seforim or whatever. But maybe that's just the way I took it.

Shalom

3/02/2006 11:31 PM
Semgirl said...
I was wondering when, we were to going to hear from you..

3/03/2006 1:20 AM
LakewoodWorkingGuy said...
Thats Ok, at least I vented a bit. It's out of my system now.

3/03/2006 9:53 AM
Limey2001 said...
gesh-was facetious one of the choices?
ms. - i didn't bother following it up
le7- sorry, i forgot kalla's get wierd about it

3/03/2006 12:13 PM
Limey2001 said...
LE7- I dont criticize chumros just those who enforce them on others.
I have a question for you, Hubby wants to be machmir and not carry in a "kosher" but allows his wife and children to carry....good so far? but then he wont carry the kicking screaming toddler who wont walk or push the double stroller that his 9 mo pregnant wife is pushing....
Whats better a)both should carry b)neither should carry c)the scene depicted is perfect d)none of the above?

3/03/2006 1:12 PM
Semgirl said...
e) Wait for some "bummy" girl to walk by, ask her to push the stroller and then look your nose down on her and talk about her behind her back, while she is still within earshot of you..

3/03/2006 1:46 PM
Limey2001 said...
ROTFLMAO!

3/03/2006 1:56 PM
ms. shtark said...
limey what does that mean? sorry i am ignorant.

3/03/2006 3:09 PM
Limey2001 said...
http://www.e-consultancy.com/knowledge/glossary/969/rotflmao.html
LE7 DOESN'T LET NIVUL PEH ON HER BLOG

3/03/2006 3:41 PM
Elisheva said...
Gosh, heating up again. Is it me?

About your issue. I totally agree with you. Chumros can be very nice, but never when pushed on others. My brother-in-law always says, he heard from someone (I don't remember who) that you should worry about your own ruchnios and your friend's gashmius.

About your question. It is silly I think. It is phrased in a way to make the answer only sound good one way. I am hardly a posek and know very little besides what I learned at home and in school, but "chumra" is a broad term. Like sometimes no chumra is more important than someone having a hard time. But some chumros are like more "Din" like this is the way that all the poskim in earlier generations went, so you can't just say well a baby is crying, so it is not important here. I guess you have to understand the psak, which I don't. I am just saying all chumros are not bad, what is bad is if you push it on others. If you happen to have a chumra that might make it hard on someone else, like your example where he is not pushing it but it makes it harder on her, then it really depends.

Would you eat non-glatt kosher chicken because there are poor people out there and they can use the money? (I am not sure this is a chumra, sorry if I am wrong. I told you, I don't really know this stuff. I mean it as an example.)

Good Shabbos and Shalom

3/03/2006 3:44 PM
ms. shtark said...
thanks limey, semgirl e mailed me what it means. have a good shabbos

3/03/2006 4:32 PM
Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...
I wanted to know what is your highest number of comments on one post because I scored 487

3/05/2006 4:36 AM
Anonymous said...
Congadulations but the ends don't justify the means...I do however share your pain for your current difficult situation you are going throgh.May hashem guide you on the proper path and may your future be one of unlimiteded naches for you and him.

3/05/2006 2:13 PM
Limey2001 said...
LE7- I tried hard to make picking any side a tough choice. I am not for either side. It is my understanding that there is in halocho that "you should be form on yenem'schesbon". Your example is interesting though, you do find especially in hilchos shabbos or basar v'cholov that bemokom hefesed meruba its muter or lekovod shabbos(or erev shabbos)
how about taking certain medication on shabbos? if it hurts enough you can, different people are affected differently by pain. in the case of the baby crying maybe there would be a heiter to use certain kula's.....
just some ramblings.....
so yes maybe i would eat a not glatt chicken to save MYSELF a buck... ;}

3/06/2006 12:07 PM
LakewoodWorkingGuy said...
RASHI in mesechta Betza 2b says that a person who is mekil is better off because he understands the kulah and has an understanding of the sugya but many a time the machmir is only machmir because he doesnt understand the sugya and its halachos.

3/06/2006 2:49 PM
Anonymous said...
While I won't question the motives of the rabbis who are known to be "hetterim speacilists"I question the motives of those who flock to them.

3/06/2006 3:06 PM
Semgirl said...
"glatt chicken to save MYSELF"

There is no such thing as GLATT by poultry.. Even I know that. Glatt means the cow's lung is smooth of adhesions. And Askenazim follow the Rema.. that allows removing them..

LWG..back to the books..

3/06/2006 3:14 PM
Jewboy said...
koach deheteira adef

3/06/2006 4:11 PM
Limey2001 said...
SG- touche, it was a joke after all
What i meant was i would eat a chicken for shabbos that had a shaila on it and was "mattered" by hefsed meruba
The gemara in chulin (and other places i believe) bring from the Navi Yechezkel (navi we can do on this website, no?) that he didn't ever eat something that a shayla was asked! even if it was 100% mutar... (no, i'm not gonna ask if he made his wife throw out the whole meal that she slaved over.....)

3/06/2006 4:51 PM
Elisheva said...
Anon before SG, I liked that comment. It reflected my thoughts very well.

How this became a whole thing on chumros, I don't know, but maybe I should do a post on it. (WHEN I get around to it...)

Shalom

3/06/2006 8:47 PM
Semgirl said...
speaking of getting around to things...when am I going to hear from you...

3/06/2006 11:31 PM
LakewoodWorkingGuy said...
SG -
Without the books, what do we have?

3/07/2006 9:36 AM
Limey2001 said...
LE7- How 'bout during sheva brochos when you are bored

3/07/2006 11:23 AM
Okee said...
Um, this is probably a stupid question, but what is the story with the shoes and the Netziv?
I'm missing something here...

3/07/2006 3:31 PM
Limey2001 said...
http://www.ou.org/chagim/roshhashannah/article/article64.htm

The Netziv, Rav Naftali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin (1817-1893), the great Rosh Yeshiva of Volozhin, made a special seudah (festive meal) when he completed his magnus opus, the Haamek She'eila. At that occasion, he explained why this milestone was so significant for him. As a young boy, he did not show much interest in his Torah studies. One night, young Naftali overheard his father bemoaning his lack of progress. With tears in his eyes, his father told his mother it was time for their young son, Hirsh Leib (his nickname), to leave the yeshiva and become an apprentice to a local craftsman, so that he might learn a meaningful trade. Naftali was deeply moved by his parents’ distress, and he rushed to them and promised to apply himself to his Torah learning. From that day on, Naftali grew to become one of the great Torah giants of the 19th century.

The Netziv displayed the Haamek She-eila and said with much emotion, "Had I become a shoemaker or tailor, I never would have written these volumes. After 120 years, I would have appeared before Hakodesh Baruch Hu, and He would have demanded, ‘Why didn't you write the Haamek She-eilah?’ No doubt I would have responded in disbelief. ‘What, I am only a simple shoemaker. How could I have written this magnificent sefer?’ ‘No’, G-d would have insisted, ‘you were capable of authoring this profound work,’ and of course that would have been the case. Imagine, for eternity I would have endured the anguish, pain and disgrace of not having authored the Haamek She-eilah."

3/07/2006 3:58 PM
Okee said...
Thanks limey! I actually have heard that story, but wayyy back in high school, so I forgive my memory this time.

Side note: That story, for me, affected me more than I realized those years ago in high school. For the last year or two, I grappled (seriously, grappled) with the decision of whether to become a Judaic studies teacher. I knew I probably could've been a good teacher, etc., but I just didn't want to do it. But I was terrified and at a stand-still because I thought that when I go up to shamayim Hashem will ask me something like, where are all those yiddishe neshamas you could have brought closer to me? No joke, I ook that issue into consideration. Well, now I'm a teacher. But it took seven months of waiting, indecision, worry and pain to get to this point. Am I worried that I wasted seven months of not influencing/teaching eager souls? Not really, because without all that grappling, I wouldn't have gotten here.

Sorry to go on and on, I should just post this all on my site, but the story triggered it.

Oh, and the whole grappling/glad for the grappling issue falls under the guilt versus regret issue. (Never feel guilt when you can feel honest regret and change.)
Okay, I'll stop now. Goodnight!

3/07/2006 10:51 PM
Y.Y. said...
eli
i have an important question for you on my blog
TIA

3/08/2006 7:42 AM
ms. shtark said...
okee, u don't have to be a full time teacher... you can do 2 things and enjoy both of them in mod.

3/08/2006 2:20 PM
devorah said...
I don't teach because I'm not cut out for it but it is a scary thought that soon all capeble girls will be busy persuing careers and noone qualified will be left to teach limudey kodosh.I aplaud you strongly okee for your decision.

3/08/2006 3:05 PM
ms. shtark said...
devorah, I disagree. There are still lots of CAPABLE girls who are continuing to teach and go into teaching. I actually taught limudei kodesh in high school while I was in seminary and also the year after and I really enjoyed it. I just decided to choose something else which would make a bit more money and has less preparation at home and yes, also something that I enjoy. But i do miss the teaching and lately, I have been pursuing going back into it just for a few hours a week as I find it very stimulating. But definitely it is a loss if someone who is really talented in teaching decides to do something else.

3/08/2006 8:11 PM
Josh said...
Don't get me started on girls (and guys) becoming teachers. Just because you want to make a difference in this world, doesn't mean you have to be a teacher. That requires certain skills that not everyone has. Every person has their own unique contribution to this world. The Netziv's was being the Netziv, but don't think that not being a teacher means you aren't following the story of the Netziv. The point of the story isn't that we should all spend our lives with Limudei Kodesh. It's that we all have our unique tachlis in this world. We should all be lucky enough to find out what that is, and excel at it!

3/11/2006 10:55 PM
Anonymous said...
Rarely are we given the cleat choice between writing a sefer or being a shoemaker.It is a series of life decisions and a relentless effort to do that what is right that will lead to the outcome.After 120 years while perhaps we made major life mistakes we must be capable of saying they weren't made for selfish reasons.No clear expectation is made of us other the doing our best and that will lead those cut out for teaching to do so those who are not to persue shleimus in their best manner applicble to them.Only with major effort can we determine what is really our best and even then one can't be sure.

3/12/2006 6:50 PM
brianna said...
Is it just me or are you saying Baruch Hashem more often now that you're engaged?

3/14/2006 8:50 PM
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