Eating Out On Shabbos

Tuesday, August 02, 2005


Hi Everyone,I just wanted to bring up an issue which was always a big thing in my year in seminary in Israel. That is about people inviting both boys and girls over for Shabbos meals.There were those couples who were very ‘frum’ and made sure never to invite us over if there would be boys there. Others weren’t too particular, and there were yet others who made it a point to have both boys and girls over as part of their hishtadlus for shidduchim.I will admit my parents are from the first group. Here in NJ (though it is not as normal to have guests) my parents won’t allow my older brothers to bring friends for a seuda unless we older girls are away for Shabbos (or at least the meal). Personally I find this a bit crazy. Like what is going to happen over one meal already! In Israel too, I felt like a burden when eating by these people, like because of me the husband couldn’t invite a friend or two from yeshiva or whatever. It’s not like I’m desperate for a meal; I’ll just find someplace else. (tho to be honest it isn’t always easy just making sure you have a normal place to eat on Shabbos, but that is a topic in itself)On the pro side of eating by girls-only places, I have to admit that sometimes I just am not in the mood of always being on my best behavior and the pressure that is always there when there are boys around, and it can be great to be with just girls. The husband usually minds his own business, or is just courteous which is much better than those who try to flirt and become best friends (like there wives are right there!)I guess I also am not so into those people that make sure to have boys and girls for shidduch purposes. First of all who says we all are interested. Besides which it is a big pressure, even though the whole reason they say is that it is a non-pressure way to get boys and girls together. I find it a pressure if I know the hosts are actively thinking who is for whom etc.Which leaves me I guess in the middle group. I’ll admit it can be a learning experience and interesting to sometimes have boys by a meal. First of all the zemiros can be nicer than the poor husband trying to do it on his own. I’m sure the husband is more relaxed with some guy friends there as well. I can be myself knowing the guys are not there just to be set up. And if someone finds a guy a girl interesting, we can always ask about them. Besides, even if we never ask or go out or anything, it is a way to glimpse the guy’s world, Yeshiva issues, what kind of middos some boys have (and some don’t!), etc.When I go out now, I feel somewhat informed by the bits and pieces I picked up by many such meals. I also learned what kind of clothing guys go for and don’t (Yes! We notice those stares!) My parents would die if they knew how often I ate by couples where the husband had his friends over as well. Like, puhlease! We’re not feeling each other up in the kitchen!One of the machanechos in sem told my friend it’s wrong not because things will happen, but because what it can make a boy think. I mean, what if a girl thinks too? Big deal. So what if I find a guy cute or handsome and let my imagination run a drop. So if it happens to a boy is that the end of his yeshiva days? Will a guy stop grasping a shiur because a vision of my boobs will keep popping into his head all day? I mean get a life, let him have his fun thinking and move on.Am I wrong? Do you agree or disagree or have no opinion? I’d love to hear. And to all those in sem now (yes, I was there too, and I know lots of us have the online access), or post-sem who are surely online like me, I’d love to hear your take here in an unthreatening place where we can hash out our true feelings.Shalom for now,
Elisheva
posted by Elisheva @ 4:16 PM

44 Comments:
ClooJew said...
Yes, lulei demistafina, you are wrong.You write "Like what is going to happen over one meal already!" and "it can make a boy think.... Big deal. So what if I find a guy cute or handsome and let my imagination run a drop.... Will a guy stop grasping a shiur because a vision of my boobs will keep popping into his head all day?" and "let him have his fun thinking and move on."The Gemara says, "Ein apitropos le'arayos--There is no protection for arayos" meaning that no matter how far you go, you can't snuff out the sexual urge.So essentially, a visual of your breasts popping (literally!) into his imagination may very well ruin his learning.The question then becomes how far do you go with these precautions. There is no question that "out of sight = out of mind" holds true with the sexual urge. Yes, men who want to fantasize and get off, can do so under any conditions. But ask any yeshiva bochur who is trying to behave and he will tell you that if you don't pick up a magazine, don't watch tv, and you don't so much as look at a girl (on the street, at the pizza store, at your rebbes house) it becomes alot easier to keep sexual thoughts at bay.I think that the Shabbos table is a wonderful way for guys and girls to meet IF THEY ARE ALREADY IN SHIDDUCHIM. Otherwise, it's just an unnecessary distraction.I have a friend who now works for a bank in Rockefeller Center in NYC. A former yeshiva bachur, he laments his fate. "It's not fair," he says. "My brother-in-law works in a law office in Cedarhurst with six other men and has a ten minute drive to and from the office. I have to sit on the subway for a half hour and then the rest of the day in a very public space with all these hot, young things in their tight clothes that leave nothing to the imagination."What you see is what you get. It does make a difference.
8:10 PM
Josh said...
ClooJew is right on target. I am all for mixed meals- if the parties are at that stage where they are looking. But the problem is when the hosts look at the meal as an actual date. Then I agree with Elisheva, the pressure is overwhelming and awkward. But if they are at the right age, then it is A) a way to get to know the opposite sex better, a useful life skill, and B) a good way to expand your opposite sex network. If none of the people at the table do interest you, you never know who they may know that might be right. It can only help.As far as the effect on guys who aren't ready to date, it is just a distraction. While it may cause guys to have impure thoughts, I'd argue that this can happen from seeing a girl on the street. It doesn't make sense that we'd restrict guys from looking at fairly tznius girls at a Shabbos table, while knowing perfectly well that they'll see much more on the street. Rather, the flirting culture, more than the hirhurim, can distract guys (and girls) from spiritual growth. Instead of focusing on how they can improve themselves in Gd's eyes, they're looking to score points in yours.Another great post Elisheva. Keep them coming!
12:02 AM
NormalJew said...
Elisheva, welcome to the Blogosphere! Good luck on your ne blog!!!Peace!NJ from NJ
9:35 AM
The Chainik Hocker said...
But the best is when your hosts (ie your newly married best friend who now feels it is his mission in life to get YOU married) doesn't tell you in advance he's invited the "best", so far as he can tell, of his new wife's friends. She didn't tell her friends either.Now, they both spent hours and hours conspiring and planning this meeting... I mean meal, you can tell that just by looking at them and you want to make an effort, you really do, but... Come on.There's nothing like that sinking feeling you get in your stomach when you come home from shul and just standing in the foyer, when the front door is closed so it's too late to make your escape ad your friend tells you, "Oh, by the way, I invited some... people over". And you know, just know, its his wife's best friend whom they interviewed for an hour and a half determining your compatibility and that you two are already married with seventeen kids and living in the ig corner house in Flatbush, and you just pray that you don't have anything stuck in your teeth from the kiddus and, regretting your choice of tie, you march up the steps and into gehenom.
1:30 PM
Elisheva said...
Chainik Hocker - Right on target! I guess the guys feel it as weird as the girls do.ClooJew - I mean I think I understand what you are saying, but as Josh points out, why is it different between seeing girls on the street and at a Shabbos table?I mean my brother brings friends to our house. I have no idea what goes on in their minds, but I sure hope my boobs don't go popping out in their minds in middle of their shiur (my gosh!). And if they do, so why is that allowed? I mean why not for a meal? And I don't dress too provocatively either, as opposed to lots of girls and Kollel wives (another story) that they'll see in the street or in stores?Like are the chassidish right to totally seperate the sexes? And even they can't gop all the way. I mean you can't just shut out the world. Don't you have to learn to control yourself?
2:29 PM
ClooJew said...
Well, Elisheva, if you want to take it to the nth degree, lulei demistafina, there's a discussion on Hashkafah.com right now about supposed restrictions for males and females on the same side of the street!I make the same comment there: Ein Apitropos Le'arayos.To clarify: just because the hosts want to set people up does not mean that there is this "date" atmosphere at the Shabbos table. All it means is that the guys and girls are all in "the parshah" so that if any sparks fly, they can do something about it.On the other hand, if they're not in the parshah--because the boys are trying to get several years of learning under their belts first--then it can only be a distraction.
8:26 PM
Elisheva said...
Cloo, are you saying that once boys are 'in the parsha' they can no longer learn, and don't do so? Wow! What an eye-opener. And here they are selling us on how hard they are shteiging away, when really once they are in the parsha and paying us attention, it is only the shteiging of our breasts they are interested in. Interesting.Shalom
11:31 PM
The Chainik Hocker said...
Elisheva,Trust us. Men are dogs. We think about sex pretty much on a constant basis. It's hard enough to try and keep your mind on other things, like respiration and where you live and what, exactly, your supposed to do when you've finished chewing.It isn't YOUR fault. It isn't any woman's fault (despte what Bais Yaakov has told you). You do not have to give us a lap dance in between the chulent and the desert in order for our brains to shut down all but the most vital functions (sorry for that image, cloojew, I imagine that popping sound was your brain exploding. Al Chait). You just have to EXIST, somewhere on the same continent, and theoretically be capable of doing a Mitzva Tantz (to coin a euphamism) in order for men to go psycho.What ClooJew is tryng to say in his heavy-handed, overly Yeshivish, Seventh-grade-Rebbe type way is men are going to be distracted by thoughts of the opposite sex no matter what- but seating boys and girls at the same table and encouraging them to be friendly is like pouring a bucket of lighter fluid on an already raging bonfire- a bad idea.
12:06 AM
Elisheva said...
OMG!Does everybody else agree that it is so bad for boys? Or is it the boys with no control who think the whole world is like them?I mean, trust me we can get pretty excited seeing some hot and cute guys (an even a very hot looking girl too), and I guess not function that well when we're off in our own world dreaming, but it's not like we become animals. Or do we? Do all men?
8:53 AM
Elisheva said...
oh, and BTW CLooJew, forgive my ignorance of yeshivish-talk. I'm afraid my knowledge is limited to what is on the yeshivishe rayd song on Journeys CD.But what does lulei dmistafina mean?Shalom all,
8:55 AM
EN said...
Hi Elisheva,Welcome to blogland. Interesting topic. Hey, I'm all for having girls at the shabbos table, it gives me something to think about besides the chulent. And when I'm involved in a shverer sugyah it is great to get some mental relaxsation by recalling the cute girl I saw the previous night. Also, you never know what shidduch might come between seeing a girl at the table but not being able to talk to her because of embarrasment. My experience with the girl-boy shabbos table its that it just gives images-for-thought but no food. I like it, but I can see why there is no purpose. as for your question:" Will a guy stop grasping a shiur because a vision of my boobs will keep popping into his head all day?" Probably a yes, unless you have really small ones lol.Looking foward to read some more thought provoking posts.EN
9:33 AM
The Tailor said...
Elisheva,wow, you covered a lot of ground and the comments are continuing in that flavor as well. It is imprtant to understand the base nature of man. Look at all of the external forces we need to keep us going on the right path: keepah, tefillin, tzi-tzit just to name a few.not all men/boys are pigs picturing girls all day long. however, some guys, when around girls, find it difficult not to concentrate on them and extremely difficult to think about them in more private times away from the meal. It isn't necessarily a contol issue, meaning it isn't good or bad, right or wrong. Don't forgot also, it isnt just about body parts and not tznius dress. In fact, if you are a decent guy, you are looking for a sweet girl who is tznius, so even by not drawing attention to yourselves, women draw attention to yourselves. Again, no faults or bad is going on, just human instincts and reactions.It is always good to check with people to see if they will be having mixed company. If they are and you feel comfortable, go and enjoy. If you don't feel cofortable and that is equally fine.you're doing great so far with the blogging, keep it up!
9:56 AM
Jameel @ The Muqata said...
Elisheva - My wife and I have invited hundreds of US yeshiva guys/sem girls to our home for Shabbat, yet I don't think we ever actively invited guys and girls for shabbat together. Maybe because I'm not actively promoting the shidduch scene, but till your posting, I never thought about it.I'll have to discuss this with my wife. Even though we just had our 7th child, I guess we'll be starting to invite people over again around Elul time.I will say that because of all the families in Israel that I ate at for shabbat back in yeshiva way-back-when, that I moved to Israel.
10:01 AM
Elster said...
Wow, ok. First of all, Elisheva, welcome to the blogosphere. Always speak you mind and don't be afraid to say something that other people might not agree with.As for this topic. Well, I am coming from a different place than those posting here so far. Where I come from it's not a big deal for boys and girls to eat meals together. It's definately not a big deal for a brother to have friends over even if, gasp, his sister will be there too.OF COURSE, where I come from there is regular social interaction between the sexes. Therein lies the difference. If a "bochor" has virtually no contact with the opposite sex, then I guess even sitting in proximity with them at a shabbos table would be considered the lit fuse. So, I think it's probably situational. ClooJew, Josh and The Tailor seem to come from a world a little closer to you than mine so their answers are probably more in-line with Lakewood and Boro Park. PS - I recently spent a shabbos in Lakewood. You have an amazing town there. Just beautiful. You are very lucky.Keep blogging,E.
10:49 AM
bleemy's blemishes said...
Great site!! Happy to see you are thinking for yourself!! Dont let anyone ever force you how to think!Good luck!Thanks for visiting my blog by the way!BB
10:57 AM
Semgirl said...
Elisheva, I absolutely love your blog. It reminds me of going to Monsey for Shabbos. The bochurimat the table are like steering, and I'm like, could you make a little more obvious. sheez, the goyim in College are a lot more discreet, and respectful.It also helps when your family is there. Because, at my father's house, I would not even look at a boy, whereas in Israel, by more more modern homes, I would meet boys.And lets just say, sometimes not nice things would happen later in the afternoon.
3:28 PM
Elster said...
Hmmmm....
3:32 PM
ClooJew said...
SemGirl, your revelation, lulei demistafina, on your most recent post explains the "steering," and further proves the point that Chainak Hocker and I have made.Are ALL men dogs? No. Some are merely pigs. But seriously, all guys--especially guys who are abstaning from everything sexual--are highly sensitive to any pushing of their sexual buttons.You misunderstood my comment about guys being in the parshah. What I meant was that if a guy is in the parshah, he can date, and hopefully marry the girl. Then he can express his sexuality--in a loving, beautiful, halahcic way--and still shteig away in kollel.The question if one learns better before or after marriage is discussed in the Gemara, and the answer is, essentially, it depends on the person. But I think all yeshiva guys will agree that being sexually excited does distract from the learning process--and it stays in your system for awhile.One more point, the Gemara does state that the greater a person's potential the greater his yeitzer hara is. So, one might argue, lulei demistafina, that all these horny yeshiva guys are gedolei hador in waiting!They just need the right women to guide them!
3:46 PM
ClooJew said...
Lulei demistafina means "Were I not afraid." It's a phrase used by many of the Biblical, Talmudic and halachic commentators when they want to say something controversial. They say, "If I were not afraid, I would say..." and then they say it. Its a signal of humility, as if to say, who am I to propose such an original idea.
3:48 PM
Elisheva said...
OMG! Where to start? Thank you all for such great responses to my blog! I love you all (no, not in THAT way! Take it easy boys...lol)It seems (especially from Tailor) that not all men or boys agree on how out-of-control it is for boys not to stare, think etc. Maybe it's just a good excuse so they can continue doing it? Or maybe it really is so hard and the others are lying that it isn't? I wish I knew. Maybe no one can ever know that.ClooJew, like I see how after marriage it can get better, being that you have your wife already (tho from what I see in these blogs, I hope at least some ppl stop looking further once they have their wife). But you're still saying then that once you're 'in the parsha' but not yet married, basically your learning is on hold. So next time we are setting up a date guys, please don't give me the "well seder starts at..." etc. !Elster: I guess you can get used to stuff, but I think it's just hormones. I know once I hit a certain age I noticed lots of things about guys i never did before, and I was in Lakewood all my life. So I don't know if its Boro Park and Lakewood, or the age.SemGirl: Like I know EXACTLY what you're saying. Like I said, my parenbts would die if they knew what I did at peoples homes in Israel. And I don't even mean doing naughty things after the meal. Just the openess with some of the guys there (if they are cute...) I'd never dream of at home. About after the meal, I guess I wasn't as adventurous as you (usualy)but came back to sem like real turned on, as did lots of other girls, and then started the comparing, sharing dreams we never dared do at home, and the trying things out with each other which I'm afraid seminaries are known for besides the "shteiging in ruchnios" we told our parents we were doing.Shalom all.
7:03 PM
Elster said...
Care to clarify that last point?
8:28 PM
The Tailor said...
Elisheva,I didn't say it was not controlable to stare nor do i think it is right for a guy to stare at a girl especially to the pont she feels uncomfortable.
9:19 PM
ClooJew said...
Elisheva,It seems you are, lulei demistafina, overtaking BriannaWorld in the Overheating the Jewish Internet department.Guys already want to BELIEVE all the things that you say go on in sem really do happen, they don't actually need confirmation that it's true. "Trying things out with each other which I'm afraid seminaries are known for"??? Oy vey, talk about distracting visuals!As for my earlier comment, it's not all black and white. The point simply is that if an outlet is there for a bochur (dating) or a yungerman (wife), shteiging is not impossible. But now you have a greater appreciation for why certain frummies can go from first date to chuppah in under three months.
9:55 PM
ClooJew said...
I, of course, would never, lulei demistafina, ask this, but Chainik Hocker wants to know if you are free this Shabbos for a meal?(No, hocker, I will NOT ask her about a Shabbos afternoon nap! Ask yourself.)
9:57 PM
Elisheva said...
ClooJew, I like your style. And sorry I am home this Shabbos, but if he can get my parents to invite a boy while I'm there, I might even think about a nap! (just joking, but don't worry, my parents aren't inviting bachurim so fast...)Sorry about what goes on in the seminaries issue, but if you read my intro it really is a major reason for my wanting to get this blog together, a place for like-minded girls like me to speak openly for once about what is going on in the seminaries. I think it needs discussing, and ignoring it longer and longer serves the next year's girls no purpose. If a guy thinks it will drive him crazy, please don't visit. (or get married or date, to have an outlet... kidding!)Shalom
11:58 PM
Lvnsm27 said...
just saying hi
3:45 AM
Semgirl said...
Elisheva you are really off to a great start, for someone who claims to not know much about blogging. The main reason I created my blog was to encourage other girls with similar experiences to share them.
8:17 AM
ClooJew said...
"to speak openly for once about what is going on in the seminaries" --Elisheva"to encourage other girls with similar experiences to share them" --SemgirlFor what purpose? To encourage certain behaviors? To condemn them? To understand them? To change them?And what, lulei demistafina, are these behvaviors again exactly?
3:29 PM
Semgirl said...
"Luli Whatever" (that is starting to bug me), just to share, vent, talk about it. In my naievete, I thought thats what blogging was all about.Luli demissisfina, I guess I was mistaken..
4:49 PM
The Tailor said...
Elisheva, Semgirl, no one is not encouraging you to hide what you need to speak about, a blog is a "confidential" place to express the thoughts and feelings that don't often come out in regular conversation. Besides, have you noticed that the condnation from some of the male readers is closely followed by requets for information?good shabos all
6:13 PM
Halfnutcase said...
with some bochurim the simple not alowing them to talk to the girls causes such thoughts, cause when they are so busy ignoring the girl they are forced to focus on her presence. if he can talk to them then she's just another person. but most of those guys are few and far inbetween. unfortunately the system these days squelches so much of the social aspect that the boys can't look at a potential shidduch as a life long friend and instead, R"L obsess over the physical aspects.
11:48 PM
Elisheva said...
Hi all!I was going to respond before Shabbos, and didn't get a chance, but Semgirl kinda made my point. I thought blogging was a place to just vent and get stuff off our chests and see if others had similar experiences and opinions etc.I actually was going to write about a certain topic next and was now rethinking after all the boys here are saying we are ruining their ruchnios. But I think that I will just give a notice if a certain post might 'distract' boys, and if you are afraid, by all means, please don't read that one. (NormalJew, I can count on you to stay in, right?!) Cause I don't totally want to give up on the benefits of having such a great forum to post, comment, vent etc.Semgirl: I so appreciate your nice comments, but I totally am a novice at the blogging, and trust me, the website did all the things for me. I just picked a template. The opinion is the only thing which is mine, and I hope that is what people like, dislike, but at least it interests them.I don't even know how to link anything (in case you havn't noticed) and would love to link lots of you, if anyone would care to tell me how.NormalJew, thanks loads for linking me.Shalom everyone
1:15 AM
Josh said...
Sorry I've been out for a while. This will lead to an oversized response to everything that's been going on.Chainik Hocker - I think you desribed (too?) well the thoughts that go through guys's heads. But let's not be so unfair. From Elisheva's own words, and what girls like Semgirl, Malka, and Bleemy tell us, girls can be as much sexual animals as men can be. Let's face it, the sexual urge is part of everybody's genetic makeup. The trick of a Jew who wants to be closer to Gd is figuring out how to put the Yetzer in its place.Jameel - and anyone else considering co-ed shabbos tables, if you're guests are in the parsha, then go ahead, it is a great casual way for people to meet (and please don't do any "research" beforehand that can make it uncomfortable). There needs to be a more relaxed environment for getting to know the opposite sex. But as everything said here shows, make sure it's highly supervised.Elster - good words. Just a correction. I don't come from the frum world. Spending a year in Yeshiva after 12th grade was my FIRST experience in a non co-ed environment. In the end, I understand both sides of the world. Even in a co-ed high school, it still took me weeks to forget the time I bumped into a girl in my class (I was shomer negia). Semgirl - you mention that frum boys can be crude (not sure what the other post-meal problems you refer to are). That is a good example of a problem that needs to be fixed. Somehow the Rosh Yeshiva's are princes to their wives, but the bochurim don't seem to pick up on common decency. Don't have a solution, but it seems like shabbos tables would be a nice place to learn how to be a mensch. If I saw a boy at my table act or say something unbecoming, I would say something to him as the host.ClooJew - as far as your objection to Elisheva's revelation, I have to take her side. I think she described a very real happening in very sensitive terms. In fact, Elisheva deserves kudos for doing such a wonderful job tracing some of the roots of the behavior. If, in fact, the "overheating" from shabbos encounters led to these later acts, that is the first step in finding a way to deal with them. Elisheva - Acharon Acharon Chaviv - Every guy is different, some have a stronger yetzer hora, and some can regain control much better. Learning isn't on hold, though during dating. (If he is dating, we can no longer hide him from his yetzer hora, as it will be a factor in deciding his marriage partner, where it will be a relevant issue.) It's just that guys are forced to fight a very large distraction that they've been protected from. As you mention, coming back from one of these co-ed experiences leaves you with a lot of imagery to deal with. There are two schools of thought to dealing with situations that can be difficult for a frum person to face, 1) hide from it and hope you never encounter it, because you will surely fail since you weren't taught how to deal with the situation, or 2) face the problem and its risks. Neither one is perfect.Elisheva, this was an excellent post, and shows that you really have a purpose for writing what you do. This is an open atmosphere for discussing troubling questions in Jewish life today. You've done a very good job so far in raising your experiences in Tznius terms. Keep exploring the roots of these problems, and what you think the frum community isn't doing right and what it could do better. Be honest about what's happening. Share your stories. Comfort others that have been there/may be there. And try and move everybody closer to serving Gd. You're sensitivity shows your maturity. We'll keep up with the feedback. And, as you requested, this FAQ will help you with adding links
2:25 AM
The Chainik Hocker said...
"I actually was going to write about a certain topic next and was now rethinking after all the boys here are saying we are ruining their ruchnios."Please, by all means, post whatever's on your mind. I don't think I have any ruchnios left.
2:26 AM
givatzeev said...
I very much have enjoyed the honesty and openness of this blog as a mechanech who was raised in the periphery of the yeshivish world (I went to Chaim Berlin a long time ago) I am a bit surprised – though not shocked at the degree of separateness in the frum community today.I really would have thought that with large families and Shabbat meals – there would have been more informal meeting between the sexes, and this would help alleviate the awkwardness. But it sounds like I am sorely mistaken. I teach primarily very modern kids – and these issues are discussed and dealt with – it sound very much like the teachers in Seminaries and Yeshivas do not have a clue where the kids are at.
2:45 AM
ClooJew said...
Based on the feedback above, it seems, lulei demistafina, that my questions above were taken as rhetorical and as a criticism.That was not my intention. Elisheva raised the issues and we have all contributed to that conversation.I like to challenge people to think, but not to shut down.
3:08 AM
bleemy's blemishes said...
I think all yeshiva guys should get lessons how to check out girls without making it so noticeable!! Man! these guys are sex starved from the way I see them trying to get a peek down my shirt!! Boys, all you have to do is ask!!BB
10:16 AM
Semgirl said...
BBCmon, I hear where your coming from, but on the other hand. If you don't respect yourself you will get even less respect from the boys. You really have to play a lil hard to get.
1:12 PM
The Chainik Hocker said...
Is anyone else a bit... disturbed by Bleemy's blog? Not that I'm judging, I don't want to be a hypocrite, but... uh... Just saying.
2:24 PM
Elisheva said...
OMG! Busy morning here.Josh - So many things to think about. Thank you so much for contributing.Chainik Hocker - You are hysterical, but I do think we all have ruchnios buried down somewhere, even tho we sometimes think we have lost it all.ClooJew - You definitely do not come along as critical, but I did wonder if you thought I went too far. I take it I am getting the go ahead from everyone. Thanx.Bleemy - I love you! But I agree with Semgirl and ChainikH that maybe that is too much. I mean you should not stare, but neither will I just let any idiot who asks get a peek. If you show subtle interest and I think you are cute on the other hand... I am human and might offer something i know you'll like, tho I know I shouldn't.Shalom everyone
2:51 PM
David said...
Elisheva,Commenting on the title of your blog...I love "eating out" on Shabbos..or any other day of the week for that matter..sorry couldnt resist (as usual)Cheers.David
11:28 AM
brianna said...
"It seems you are, lulei demistafina, overtaking BriannaWorld in the Overheating the Jewish Internet department."CJ, how COULD you. Just joking, I don't have a monopoly on overheating the jewish internet, whatever that meansBut yes, the things they say happen in sem really do happen. And then the girls get married off and have babies. What's the big deal?
2:08 AM
dietgarage said...
i always think its strabge how yeshivish girls behave differently with guys..... personally i dont think being with guys is stressful EVEN during a meal
6:28 PM
Stam said...
The amount of comments on your blogs are overwhelming, no?When i was in e"y the only time i was at people with bochurim over when i would be by my young aunts houses and their first cousins would be over (my aunts and uncles were cool about it though "we're all family here, it's ok)-- there were only so many times they could kick me out of the house (or i'd arrive back too early) :) The singing is almost always stunning when you have 10 guys singing!!!i was staying at my chessed family's for shabbos one week. shabbos day they had about 10 bochurim over (like roshei yeshivas sons), so i ate next door at my cousins apartment, until i suddenly felt REALLY sick and nearly passed out. I ran next door (with the intention of going to my room to sleep)-- i was terrified that the husband would be mad at me for "being seen" when bochurim were around (i needn't have worried, they were cool about it- though he wasn't the type to be!)... i guess that's just the type of house i spent time at though... (if you want some more yeshivish couples to go to, lemme know)When i was dorming out of town, my young married friends invited me over when their husbands friends were around, (NOT mir guys)... but yeh, the meals are kinda entertaining that way...